Final Fantasy 7 Remake takes some important twists and turns within the late game, and we actually want to speak about it.
In this dialogue, Alex Donaldson and Kirk McKeand will talk about that ending, and the ramifications it might need on the longer term games. Some quantity of information of the occasions of the unique game can be assumed.
Full Game and Detailed Ending Spoilers observe. ‘Cos we need to talk about it. Don’t scroll previous Barret within the sailor go well with except you need spoilers, or have already completed the game. If you learn this, we respectfully ask you respect different followers and use the information sensibly. We know a lot of you’ve got had early copies for every week, however nonetheless – don’t spoil issues for others. This article, and its feedback, are for spoiler dialogue.
We’re not joking. After this line there are whole-ass, full-game spoilers. Turn round… or don’t. Here is Barret once more. Sailor outfit. He’s lethal critical.
First: a fast recap. Throughout the game, the primary forged are set upon by a set of entities known as Whispers. These usually are not current within the unique, they usually’re revealed to be the embodiment of destiny – ensuring the story performs out because it did within the unique. It’s all very meta.
At one level, they even resurrect social gathering member Barret after he’s skewered by Sephiroth’s sword, as that isn’t how issues are ‘meant’ to go. It all will get a bit meta.
As the story involves a detailed, the characters determine to combat destiny, fairly actually, battling it in a void in opposition to bodily embodiments of their destinies. They additionally battle Sephiroth in a combat that’s just like the precise ending of the total unique game, although this remake is supposed to solely be the primary half. By the top of the game, the important thing gamers are in the identical locations as they had been on the finish of the Midgar part of the unique FF7, however the context is completely completely different, and the characters may even be in a brand new world the place issues will play out utterly in a different way going ahead.
Let’s kick off our dialog with Alex:
AD: So, I suppose I need to begin by saying that in some methods Final Fantasy 7 Remake has extra in widespread with Final Fantasy 13 than it does with the unique Final Fantasy 7. I imply this in thematic phrases; the unique FF7 is about life, dying and reincarnation, however due to the part of the unique story the remake covers, these themes don’t actually get an opportunity to get going.
Those themes are touched on within the unique game’s Midgar, however solely in a approach that exists to arrange the scenes in Cosmo Canyon that actually kick that entire thread off. It’s the identical right here, however in fact you don’t get to Cosmo Canyon… so it is smart that the game gives up one other core theme as a substitute. I simply didn’t count on that theme to be destiny, future and predeterminism, which was mainly the core theme of FF13.
It’s honest to say that the individuals concerned have an curiosity on this, I suppose. Story co-director Motomu Toriyama directed FF13, and author Kazushige Nojima wrote FF13’s common situation, so these guys are visiting the identical themes once more. Tetsuya Nomura’s Kingdom Hearts has a good quantity of these things, too.
So let’s begin by asking – Kirk, what do you consider it? The concept that’s introduced within the game is that there’s a ‘set version’ of historical past – it’s described as “the will of the planet itself” and “the flow of the planet from inception to oblivion” – and that the model of occasions within the unique game is that predestined model of issues. Every time occasions are about to vary away from the unique considerably, these ghost issues present up and intervene to attempt to verify individuals go to the suitable locations, do the suitable issues and even die on the appropriate occasions.
But then on the finish of the game the crew do what Lightning and pals did and determine to attempt to combat destiny to vary the longer term. Do you assume it’s too meta?
KM: It is simply too meta. Up till the top, all of the small modifications added one thing to the unique story that followers got here to expertise. These ghostly apparitions that intervene, known as Whispers, had been the primary new thriller, however I assumed they had been tied to the Jenova clone experiments like Cloud and Sephiroth themselves. The spirits put on darkish cloaks not not like those of the numbered check topics that make the pilgrimage to Nibelheim for Reunion within the unique game. However, it seems that the Whispers are only a gadget for the writers to maneuver the game away from its unique imaginative and prescient completely.
The massive query hanging over this remake was how Square Enix deliberate to do the remainder of the story – how would the game be cut up up? We already knew this was going to be Midgar, however the unique game’s map is huge and different, full of various biomes and cities with distinct structure. From a improvement standpoint, at this constancy – as a result of, let’s be trustworthy, Final Fantasy 7 Remake is attractive – packing all of that in looks as if a nightmare by way of belongings. The Whispers don’t really feel like they’re there to assist the prevailing story – they’re a get-out clause so the upcoming games can veer wildly from the unique imaginative and prescient.
At the top of Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Cloud and firm combat destiny, such as you say, someway altering a future that hasn’t but occurred. We see glimpses of Aerith’s dying, we see Red XIII as Nanaki operating together with his cubs within the aftermath. It suggests all of that can change. Hell, even Biggs someway survived the Sector 7 plate being dropped, regardless of apparently bleeding out midway up the supporting pillar. I perceive that the writers wished to go away some surprises in there, however these modifications are far-reaching and, in some situations, utterly baffling. Like, the game ends with you combating Sephiroth, however he’s not been fleshed out in any respect. I think about new gamers will marvel what his position even is. And Aerith abruptly is aware of every thing about him, whereas Cloud and Tifa – who’ve handled him prior to now – barely say something about him in any respect. How did you are feeling about the entire Sephiroth sequence?
AD: It’s humorous you point out pondering the Whispers had been a part of the Reunion, as in early improvement of the unique game there weren’t Sephiroth clones, however quite the black-cloaked ‘people’ had been items of Jenova floating magically below the cloak – which is why they’d be attempting to reunite, to grow to be a complete being once more. They minimize that, however I too thought they had been bringing that again – apparently not.
This is the place the ending confused me a bit, to be trustworthy. Before they make the choice to combat the Whispers, Aerith says “We’ll be changing more than fate itself. If we win, we’ll be changing ourselves” – and then you definitely go forward and try this, however then the ending of the game is identical, in a way. The crew are nonetheless leaving Midgar on a journey to chase Sephiroth.
Other items have moved round – Biggs is certainly alive, Wedge may be? Wedge’s destiny is that the Whispers seem to throw him out of a window to his dying – which is attention-grabbing in itself as that’d imply he dies in the identical approach however in a unique place – but it surely does fade to black, so we don’t know for certain.
But the large one… there’s a suggestion that Zack is alive, too – however after what it was constructed as much as be, I believed the ending was going to be extra dramatically completely different. In a way the 2 are at odds: it builds up the crew altering historical past, however then nothing main comes of it for them personally. Despite displaying us flashes of Red XIII from the unique ending, of Aerith’s dying, of Meteor and suggesting this stuff could not occur or could occur in a different way now, the ending units the core gamers on the identical path they had been on earlier than.
KM: Does it although? I’m unsure it does. For those that don’t know, Zack is the man who was a SOLDIER 1st Class. Cloud was an bizarre Shinra troop who idolised Zack and wished to be him. He noticed Zack die in entrance of him, took up his buster sword and mainly stole his id. Trauma made him imagine this lie of a life he’d created for himself.
In the scene we see with Zack, he survives the encounter the place he was purported to die. Even Zack is shocked, he’s like “Huh, that was all of them?” when he realizes all of the troopers are lifeless. This poses a giant query: did this occur within the universe we performed in all through the game, or is Zack solely alive on this new universe the place destiny has been severed? And if the latter, does that imply one other model of Cloud exists on this similar world? Is there one other Barret, Tifa, and Aerith? Are we now in an alternate dimension utterly?
If Zack survived that encounter, Cloud would have by no means taken up his sword. Aerith presumably would have carried on relationship Zack. The butterfly impact means this one change may have large implications on the state of the world, and I believe issues will play out very in a different way within the subsequent couple of games due to this, regardless of the crew ending the game in mainly the identical place. What are your ideas?
AD: I suppose this received’t be answered till the following game, however I do need to be aware when the crew step by the ‘singularity’ – which is what the game calls it – they arrive out in an identical-looking Midgar. So one wonders in the event that they stepped into an alternate universe there.
I need to be aware that after we see Zack has survived the onslaught he’s meant to die to, we briefly see the ‘Stamp’ canine that’s been seen on graffiti round Midgar to assist Avalanche, however the Stamp within the Zack scene is a unique breed of canine to the Stamp we see all through the game in any other case – so is {that a} trace this can be a completely different universe? It all does really feel a bit like JJ Abrams’ Star Trek film, the place they create a department within the timeline to allow them to retell outdated tales another way whereas conserving the outdated canon intact.
Just on this department Zack is alive… if not completely, then no less than he lives longer than he did earlier than. To quote one other time journey and continuity-focused sequence, Doctor Who, “There’s a man alive in the world who wasn’t alive before. The whole world’s different because he’s alive.” It modifications every thing. Biggs too.
The less complicated reply may be that that is only a retcon and now Zack takes Cloud to Midgar and perishes in another approach, too. Cloud nonetheless has his sword, in spite of everything.
I do assume there’s a butterfly impact from the small modifications, although. Biggs surviving takes the wind out of Avalanche’s sacrifice, doesn’t it? Even if Wedge doesn’t survive, which is unclear, I believe they moved his sacrifice to a much less attention-grabbing place. The fantastic scene within the unique the place at Cosmo Canyon Barret has an introspective second lamenting the lack of his pals is massively weakened now. I believe it additionally takes the tooth out of the plate falling on the whole – there shouldn’t even be any our bodies to retrieve from that, however the ending even suggests Jessie was recovered (her headband and gloves are on Biggs’ bedside after we see him recovering).
In the ending, any time one thing has been modified there’s sparkles within the sky. We see them over Zack when he survives – the truth is they explode into view, knocking Zack over. We see them over the individuals of Sector 7 as they start to rebuild, which by no means occurs within the unique. We see them over the surviving Biggs.
I believed the Whispers may be a recurring ingredient all through the whole remake sequence, however now I’m pondering they may simply be the primary villain for this primary half solely. Now they’ve been defeated, the longer term could be freely modified… which such as you stated, is an in-universe excuse for them to make the following games as completely different as they need, which may clear up all types of improvement issues. Like, is that an issue? I really actually like the concept of them doing one thing actually completely different. The unique game continues to be there for us. But then once more, I’m one of many individuals who by no means notably wished a remake within the first place. I’d’ve quite been taking part in FF16 this week, a lot as I’ve liked the remake.
KM: I get you, even when I can’t imagine you quoted Doctor Who to get there. I’m excited to see what they do with it, however on the similar time I really feel kinda bummed out. Every scene I used to be wanting ahead to seeing recreated is right here in Final Fantasy 7 Remake and executed effectively, and I used to be wanting ahead to many extra within the subsequent couple of games. Will Cid and his rocket be in them? Will Red XIII’s backstory together with his dad? The Golden Saucer? The jail beneath it? And even outdoors of all these issues that may not occur, I really feel just like the change on the finish of the remake will make completely no sense to any newcomers.
I additionally need to contact in your level about Cloud nonetheless having the buster sword – I don’t assume meaning Zack is lifeless. He is lifeless, however solely within the universe that our Cloud comes from. I believe on this universe he’s alive and so is one other Cloud – evil Cloud, anybody? Man, that will be lame.
Anyway, as I used to be saying about newcomers – we as followers of the unique already know who Sephiroth is and why we need to combat him, but it surely’s by no means defined to the gamers. The game doesn’t earn that last combat with him. In the unique, he’s this unknowable menace for a very long time, then you definitely slowly uncover who he’s. Final Fantasy 7 Remake journeys over its personal standing as a basic and expects the viewers to care simply because this iconic villain is again. But he’s not iconic to new gamers – he’s only a dude in a cloak with a giant sword who turns up and does issues that you simply don’t perceive. I additionally hate what they did with the blood path within the Shinra Building, turning it into blue goo from Jenova, Sephiroth’s alien mum, as a substitute. It utterly strips the horror away from that sequence.
I dunno. The finish simply felt rushed, and most of the characters there have been underdeveloped. The most important forged is so good that it stands out much more. They have correct character arcs they usually develop as individuals. But then you definitely’ve bought this forged of unhealthy guys we all know nothing about. Even President Shinra’s son, Rufus, is a bit disappointing, proper?
AD: I believe that is the core drawback. FF7 Remake is a superb game – like you say in the review, greatest 3D fight in a Final Fantasy game, fantastic character improvement, a ravishing imaginative and prescient of its admittedly restricted world… the shortcomings don’t take a lot away from that. But whereas we as followers are debating the implications of the ending, I can’t assist however assume that those that haven’t performed the unique will simply be massively confused.
Like you say, nothing actually will get its time or decision on this game. I suppose we knew this moving into. But Shinra continues to be lively. The President is lifeless however Rufus is clearly a nasty man and is now in cost as a substitute. Sephiroth – you combat him and he escapes. The solely factor that has modified is that the social gathering has defeated the ghosts that had been attempting to power them to take the identical actions and path as the unique game… and all that could be a bit meta.
Like, when the Whispers present you glimpses of the unique game’s most iconic moments – Aerith praying, Meteor over Midgar, Red XIII and his cubs from the ending, even Cloud laying Aerith to relaxation… Red XIII calls this “glimpses of the future if we fail here today.” For us, that’s thrilling… the concept these iconic occasions could now now not occur as a result of they received, or could occur in a different way this time round. Exciting and somewhat bit scary, certain. But what does that even imply to any individual coming into FF7 Remake with solely an informal information of the game?
Same for the Zack revelation on the finish, proper? The shock and thriller in that requires you to have performed Crisis Core, or seen an non-obligatory, easy-to-miss scene within the unique FF7.
As for Rufus, man, I used to be bummed. I liked his combat – among the best within the game, an actual stand-and-bang duel that requires technique – however I used to be actually dissatisfied he doesn’t have a megalomaniacal rant like within the unique game. He solely has a handful of strains; you don’t get a lot of a really feel for who he’s as an individual in any respect. So, yeah, underdeveloped… which I believe is fairly true for lots of the non party-member forged, due to course their improvement must be saved for the following game.
What a forged that most important forged is, although. So effectively written and delivered. Just sensible. I suppose that’s the take-away for me. These new modifications may work or they won’t, they usually may get higher or worsen, but it surely’s been a hell of a journey to see them executed like this. I’m into the change, personally. I do know you prefer it a bit much less. More than something, it’s made me need to replay the unique once more.
KM: Yeah, it’s nonetheless an incredible game. And, hey, it’s bought us debating and speaking about what all of it means. It’s bought me enthusiastic about how excruciating it will likely be to attend three years or so to see what occurs subsequent. I’m enthusiastic about the way forward for a sequence I really like, and possibly that’s sufficient.
