Originally posted by Kalypso_Tobias:

Hey everyone,

we've decided to merge the topics here discussing the absence of political symbols in Commandos 2 HD Remaster.

Besides the fact that u decided 2 add even more censorship of historical accurate symbols 2 the game, do u want 2 explain why u did not at least remove the violence-related censorship?

Given the fact that u decided 2 go max-censorship this would be interesting...

Originally posted by V I D A L:

Commandos 2 HD is not really developed by Kalypso. It was poorly managed for sure and I don't know who to blame for it. Perhaps they shouldn't have hired a studio with mobile games experience only to handle such beloved franchise. Perhaps they should have put more faith in Commanods 2 and invested more in it.. more capable developer.. higher budget and development time.. higher standards and QA etc.
But it seems like they tried to put this remaster out as quick and as cheap as possible.

Yes, the developer didn't do a great job with the game itself. But then there's also the censorship angle, which falls squarely on the publisher. Kalypso Media Group themselves said in very clear words that they consider this a moral responsibility as a German publisher, and that they did it because they wanted to, not because they had to.

https://archive.md/LpXMd

Originally posted by Unerde:

Hi gamzrck,
there will only be one version of Commandos 2 HD Remaster internationally, and it will not incorporate any symbols, portraits, speeches or other assets that could break the law in many countries.
As a company, we are obliged to adhere to the law, but we want our users to have the best experience with our games without causing potential delays or even being banned in certain countries.

Therefore, we have decided on this course of action so that we will not be forced to split up groups of players or be unable to provide the game to specific regions at all.

-cheers

Dear devs. I'm not sure if you're just not aware of recent developments or simply not as transparent as you'd like us to believe.

There is no law to be broken. The only country that used to prohibit the display of Nazi symbols in video games was Germany, but this ruling was reversed in 2018, finally equating video games to film and other forms of artistic media as excluded from the application of Strafgesetzbuch section 86a.

It's really simple. If you don't want to portray history, don't release games about history. Please let others who actually appreciate historical accuracy work on them, and keep working on fictional stuff.

Censoring history doesn't in any shape or form help avoiding the mistakes of the past. As a matter of fact, it encourages them. That's the whole reason why previous rulings about this have been reversed in your own country.

Originally posted by Abriael:

There is no law to be broken. The only country that used to prohibit the display of Nazi symbols in video games was Germany, but this ruling was reversed in 2018, finally equating video games to film and other forms of artistic media as excluded from the application of Strafgesetzbuch section 86a.

The situation in Germany is nowhere near as simple as you describe it. It is always an individual decision and there are strict requirements for the representation of symbols in games.

Originally posted by YouTube.GTuxTV:

The situation in Germany is nowhere near as simple as you describe it. It is always an individual decision and there are strict requirements for the representation of symbols in games.

It's very simple. There are zero reasons why a game like this would be banned as opposed to Wolfenstein given recent rulings.

Let's not pull ridiculous excuses for this trainwreck, please.

Oh wow, merging the -big- topic on censorship with that small one and not the other way round, really? It's obvious anyway that you guys at Kalypso have a 'vision' for that game that, like it or not, is in total opposition with the one from the gaming community who knows and loves the Commandos games, and obvious too that you won't budge.

Once one said all they had to you in this matter, might as well turn one's back because apart from being able here to have proper discussions with fellow gamers, with you it's like talking to a wall.

I'm done here with you, you're not worth the trouble and time.

According to your logic, not putting symbology is not supporting it. On the contrary, that these symbols appear in a historical game, means supporting those extremisms. In that case, you are supporting the murder, kidnapping and terrorism, since in the game torture and kill without any censorship.
Just as absurd is my assumption as yours

Originally posted by YouTube.GTuxTV:

The situation in Germany is nowhere near as simple as you describe it. It is always an individual decision and there are strict requirements for the representation of symbols in games.

What is your point? You kept repeating the situation is far complex than we assume. Yet dozens of game dev studios have launched their titles incorporating iconography of this kind and brutal violence, drug use, blood all over your screen, with full allowance from the rating boards, be it Unterhaltungssoftware Selbstkontrolle (USK) or another.

When a game that had nothing to do with politics for 19 long years, soon to be 20-years old, becomes suddenly involved in political discussions, it speaks to me its current makers (NOT ITS TRUE CREATORS) take it as personal matter of bringing justice their own way.

And what sort of justice this is, as it has nothing to do with "morals" or anything when the software you publish isn't really your own production rather than publishing someone else's art and vision.

Bear in mind. This game has no single piece made by the publisher or the developer in terms of software; everything, besides marketing materials, such as the game logo, promo banners and videos, is and was created by Pyro Studios.

P.S. Well, I see only the save reminder may be a new feature the developer has made. Correct me if I missed something.

Creative freedom gone missing?

Again, as @Zaxx said. You don't care about iconography and you won't notice it if it's present, But once it's removed, it becomes too noticeable. I'm sure half of the people here support this staement and everyone doesn't care about symbols and their context, rather than

PRESERVING THE ORIGINAL VISION AND ART.

That's it, about preserving the game how it always was.

Originally posted by V I D A L:

Jurassic World Evolution is pretty great.
Commandos 2 HD is not really developed by Kalypso. It was poorly managed for sure and I don't know who to blame for it. Perhaps they shouldn't have hired a studio with mobile games experience only to handle such beloved franchise. Perhaps they should have put more faith in Commanods 2 and invested more in it.. more capable developer.. higher budget and development time.. higher standards and QA etc.
But it seems like they tried to put this remaster out as quick and as cheap as possible.
It kinda reminds me of that first RE4 PC release.. that was so bad that Capcom made another port several years later to get it right.

"But it seems like they tried to put this remaster out as quick and as cheap as possible" and they spent all the money in censorship

Originally posted by V I D A L:

How cute.. they think that hiding Hitler and Swastikas the world will eventually forget their screw ups from the past.
A German company has no business working with WW2 games. How can they make a video game in which their country is the enemy? Just don't. They should just sell the rights of the Commandos franchise to someone who cares.

Wrong about the second sentence. Lots of other German studios avoid turning themselves into political pawns. Let's not judge everyone because the mistakes of one, aye?

I have one queastion to devs: with who we fight in this new Commandos 2? Precisely please.

Originally posted by V I D A L:

Originally posted by Spawk:

Yes, the developer didn't do a great job with the game itself. But then there's also the censorship angle, which falls squarely on the publisher. Kalypso Media Group themselves said in very clear words that they consider this a moral responsibility as a German publisher, and that they did it because they wanted to, not because they had to.

https://archive.md/LpXMd

How cute.. they think that hiding Hitler and Swastikas the world will eventually forget their screw ups from the past.
A German company has no business working with WW2 games. How can they make a video game in which their country is the enemy? Just don't. They should just sell the rights of the Commandos franchise to someone who cares.

I can tell you are really emotional on this subject matter therefore my 2 cents:

While all criticism on the current state of the game is legit (gameplay, performance), I feel like critizing this deliberate choice of censorship is misplaced and does not provide any sort of constructive feedback. Actually Kalypso just reposted their position and reasoning behing this issue and basically ends this senseless debate on censorship.

It was well known and publicly announced that the final product is going to be free of ideological symbols and references related to the Nationalsocialist Party.
"A German company has no business working with WW2 games." You are certainly entitled to this opinion even though I think it is rather rude and narrow-minded one. Censorship does not occur so that companies can "hide" behind their past and hope people forget. Just an utter BS claim.
"How can they make a video game in which their country is the enemy?".
According to this logic it is going to be very difficult for a lot of companies all around the globe.

"Perhaps they shouldn't have hired a studio with mobile games experience only to handle such beloved franchise." Yea I can relate to that thought a bit. However porting an old classic to a new engine and platform (PS4,Xboxone) is a challenging task as it is for many developers.

Lastly if you only find joy in WW 2 when immersed in a true Nazi setting ,(YES all Germans are evil demons from hell) then there a plenty of other games out there.

Originally posted by Kalypso_Tobias:

We have consciously decided to release only one global version of Commandos 2 HD Remaster, one which as far as possible avoids the use of political symbols such as Swastika or SS-runes. We do not want to encourage racism, discrimination or exclusion with our games.

So you think the original devs of this game wanted to encourage racism in it because it has swastikas in it?
Quite a reach.

Originally posted by Krezzin:

Originally posted by YouTube.GTuxTV:

The situation in Germany is nowhere near as simple as you describe it. It is always an individual decision and there are strict requirements for the representation of symbols in games.

What is your point? You kept repeating the situation is far complex than we assume. Yet dozens of game dev studios have launched their titles incorporating iconography of this kind and brutal violence, drug use, blood all over your screen, with full allowance from the rating boards, be it Unterhaltungssoftware Selbstkontrolle (USK) or another.

The big problem is:
U guys repeat again & again that "the law has changed."

As I already pointed out in another thread:
The law has NOT changed.
The symbols r STLL banned.

This is what has changed:
Unlike in the past, the USK now does review games with ns-symbols.
But - as the user YouTube.GTuxTV has pointed out - the USK will decide individualy if such a game gets a rating or not.

The main reasons why Wolfenstein or other games did get the rating in the uncut version is very simple:
- U r fighting against the Nazis (So the "Resistance-effect" is crucial.)
- U can only play as the allies in the game.

As u know Postum Scriptum did not get the rating in the uncut version.
The reason is also very simple:
- U can play as the allies but u can also play as the Germans.
- What I called "Resistance-effect" does not exist in this game.

Regarding Commandos 2:
Since the game is all about the "Resistance-effect" I am 100% sure that it would get the USK rating in the uncut version.

IMPORTANT:
I just did some research & it seems that Kalypso did not even try 2 get an USK rating.
At least the Commandos 2 HD Remaster is not in the databank of the USK but ofc this can be bc of various reasons including they did not want the USK 2 do so etc.

TBH, 2 me it now looks like they did simply put the USK rating icons from the original game on their shop page.

If this turns out 2 be correct it is very simple WHY they decided 2 release a max-censorship version of the game.

In Germany u r allowed 2 sell games without USK rating BUT this means that ur game can be banned (put on index list) by the BPJM at any time.
ANY game of ANY genre (simulation, racing game, adventure - it doesn't matter) without USK rating will be treated as 18+ title.

If they did try 2 get an USK rating it really makes no sense 2 add the violence-related censorship 2 the remaster again.
Nowadays a Commandos-like game with this violence level would get an USK 16 rating in the uncut version without any problem.

See Shadow Tactics:
similar gameplay, a lot of blood (much more than in the Commandos games) & corpses,
USK 16.

Back 2 what the user said above:
"The situation in Germany is nowhere near as simple as you describe it"
He is absolutely correct & again:
(I can't stress it enough)
The laws have NOT changed.